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NAIDA'S LIES
Now that we have established that Fleedian brains' story is false, we need to clarify the fundamental question: why is Naida lying to Duke Fleed? I believe that ep25's dialogues can be of help. In Dialogue 1, Gandal states that he gave personally instructions to Naida about what to do when she will meet Duke Fleed:
Gandal: I have already ordered to Naida's brain the job to do.
So, according to Gandal's words, Naida knew that Duke Fleed was hiding on Earth and she stole the Monster Disc to meet him, dropping it down on purpose near the Shirakaba Ranch, thinking that Duke Fleed, or at least Koji, would definitely come out to examine it.
Gandal: I purposely let Naida hijack the spacer. Naida and Duke Fleed are childhood friends, she will track him down for sure. I have already ordered to Naida's brain the job to do.
Consequently, there is serious doubt about Naida's great surprise in meeting Duke Fleed.
In this case, Naida acts as a liar from the beginning. In fact, examining the encounter between Naida and Duke (Dialogue 2), you can experience a strange effect in seeing her behavior of astonishment and in hearing her sentence:
Naida: I didn't believe to be able to see you again!
OK, she may have said it for emotion. But it's strange she did not say, for example: "I was hoping to see you here, it was told to me on Vega Planet" Why pretending surprise, instead of feeling sincere relief in seeing her hopes come true? But this is just the tip of the iceberg: let's see her story in Dialogue 3.
Naida: Planet Fleed, which was invaded by Vega Kingdom 1, from then on it has been nothing else than hell. The only alternatives for the few survived people were hard labour, being experimented, or the death for desperation which arrives sooner or later.
This speech, however, contradicts two facts:
1) Blacky's words, when he speaks about Naida's escape. Let's read again:
Blacky: A monster-saucer 2 that was heading from planet Vega to the Moon has been hijacked and it has fallen on Earth.
So Naida, who had just kidnapped the Monster Disc, was imprisoned on Planet Vega: this is confirmed later, in the scene where King Vega in person hypnotizes her. How could Naida then describe the condition of the Fleedians on her native planet?
2) We know from the anime - even after ep25 - that Fleed Planet was completely destroyed by Vegatron Bomb explosion and Duke Fleed himself observed the event.
Consequently, no Fleedian could have been enslaved directly on Planet Fleed, as Naida instead claims.
How can these two contradictions be explained? A bad script? Or was Naida describing the conditions of the Fleedian survivors in Vega prisons? Or was she lying to Daisuke, describing scenes that she has never seen or that have never happened anywhere? A possible explanation could be the fact that, since the conquest of Fleed planet lasted a long time (it was implicit in ep2), King Vega had first enslaved the Fleed inhabitants on their own planet, including Naida, who was then brought to Vega planet before Fleed planet was destroyed by the explosion of vegatron. But this hypothesis is implicitly denied by Duke Fleed in ep2, because he never spoke of Fleedian slaves.
Also, it is remarkable that Naida does not tell Duke Fleed that she has been imprisoned (also) on Vega. Why would she ever omit such an important thing? It does not make any sense, and the only reasonable explanation is that Naida is deliberately lying.
There are further "strange" details in ep25 concerning Naida. She was not held "prisoner" on Vega in the "classic" sense of the term. Let's carefully read Gandal's talk in Dialogue 1:
Gandal: Naida from Baron family, who I took as an hostage on Planet Fleed, should have been onboard, but what about her? 3
So, in VO, Gandal says Naida was captured as a hostage, not as a prisoner. This is a crucial point: it must have a sense. Why define her as a "hostage"? Hostages usually serve as a blackmail, if not in immediate use, at least in potential use. If Naida was only a "childhood friend" of Duke Fleed or a simple noble Fleedian girl, why treating her with a special treatment, not only capturing her alive, but also keeping her alive for 6 years on Vega planet? We know that King Vega and his major state were well aware that Duke Fleed had fled away from Fleed with Grendizer, so they could reasonably imagine that, if he had not died, they would have sooner or later met him. In fact, in ep1, Blacky is not shocked by the surprise at Grendizer's appearance: his approach is more like "hey, look who I am seeing again".
It can be speculated that Naida was well-known by King Vega, Gandal and Blacky (who is not surprised by his superior's words ...), if Gandal personally provided for her capture and with such a particular status of "hostage". These details open to the possibility that Naida was given a "special treatment" because of her particular connection with Duke Fleed, which had to be known among the highest ranks of the Vega Empire.
Her importance would therefore admit the involvement of King Vega himself. But how did the Veghians know Naida so well and how did they think she had a special relationship with Duke Fleed, so much to consider her as a useful hostage? We'll talk about it later. What I would like to focus now is this: if Naida was taken as an hostage in order to be used as a blackmail weapon towards Duke Fleed, it was necessary to keep her safe and in good condition. So, despite her words in Dialogue 3, I don't think Naida had a bad treatment during her imprisonment on Planet Vega.
I would like to point out that I don't deny that Naida may have suffered, either because of the attack on Fleed Planet and during her imprisonment on Planet Vega. My aim is to show that this episode is far more complex than the concept of "the poor Naida who has been forced to act badly".
In fact, here we come to the heart of the question: if Naida lies, was she "herself" or not when she was lying? Are her lies produced by mental conditioning? That is, her stories are just the result of external inputs? Or are Naida's lies coming from her conscious decision? This is not an irrelevant issue. In my opinion, the answer to this question is the key to interpret the whole ep25. If conditioning is not the main cause of Naida's actions and she acts fundamentally on her own initiative, ep25's events shed a different light.
But, if Naida acts on her own initiative, then it is necessary to deepen her motivation and carefully evaluate her personality to explain her actions. It should be noted that the explicit technique of hypnosis is used by Veghians only twice: on Naida and on Morus. But there is a difference: in ep25, a special instrument was installed in Naida's brain, while this does not happen to Morus.
But is it entirely true? With a careful examination, it does not look like that. In fact, on Naida King Vega's hypnosis occurs before the instrument is installed on her: the scene of torture seems very clear about this.
Instead, in ep71 we see a conditioning process, but in OV (Original Version) it is explained that that typology (among other things, carried out with the help of mechanical means) has only a temporary effect, that can be reversed after a certain period. Morus's brainwashing would remain valid for three years: in fact, according to OV, conditioning was applied shortly after Vega had conquered Moru, which happened, according to VO, three years before ep71.
Consequently, Morus' conditioning was done about two years before ep25. This is indirectly confirmed by the evolution of the conditioning technique: on Naida it is performed without the aid of mechanical means, but directly as "pseudo- hypnosis". Now, we can suppose that, knowing that brainwash techniques are reversible, and trying to avoid this problem, Veghians have applied the instrument in Naida's brain in order to send continuous electrical messages to keep her in an altered chemical state, capable of making her act according to her unconscious feelings, without her rational part taking over.
Can we deduce from clues present in the anime that this hypothesis is correct? In ep18, Koji is mentally conditioned (with a different method), and he receives the order to kill Umon, and his action is stopped only through the destruction of the control tool.
Let's go to another case: the conditioning of Kaori, Hayashi's girlfrend, in ep16. Kaori is conditioned by an electronic instrument and she was ordered to kill: but, when Hayashi gets in the way, the girl's feelings for him are able to counter the orders of the Veghians and their plan fails.
Be careful of this particular: Kaori is mentally conditioned by an external instrument, but she cannot hurt Hayashi when they meet face to face, when she is ordered to kill him. Kaori says she is in love, as does Naida, but the actions of the first girl are very different from those of the latter girl.
Why? It is very likely that the reason is due to Kaori's intimate feelings, which were different from Naida's feelings. Or, one might say that Kaori's mental conditioning was at a different level than Naida's: it might also be. The Veghians may have perfected their conditioning methods over time in the 9 episodes between Kaori and Naida's episodes. But in comparing Naida's psychology with that of Kaori, at the end I'm leaning for the first hypothesis, the one about the feelings. We will take care of analyzing in detail Naida's deep feelings in the next paragraph: meanwhile, I can anticipate that my theory is that Naida is really herself throughout all ep25, and what she says and what she does is not due to external orders or conditioning, but it is of her own spontaneous initiative. The words she says, the lies she inventes, the physical attack on Duke Fleed at the hangar...these are not a consequence of orders received, but are the revelation of her real long-repressed sentiments.
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1 Vega Kingdom: “Kingdom Kyousei of Vega", exactly.
2 monster-saucer: “Enbanju” in the original.
3 "Naida from Baron family, who I took as an hostage on Planet Fleed, should have been onboard, but what about her?": “Furiidosei de horyonishita Baronke no Naida ga notteita hazudaga dousita?” in the original.
Edited by joe 7 - 3/3/2020, 15:22
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NAIDA: THE FIGHT BETWEEN CONSCIOUS AND UNCONSCIOUS
To understand Naida's behavior in ep25, a premise is necessary. In the Roman Album, Toshio Katsuta states that "experimental" elements have been voluntarily included in this episode and that this approach is then continued in other episodes. And for anyone who knows Go Nagai's works, it is clear that one of the fundamental elements of his poetics is the introspective analysis of the characters and the attention to the inner struggle between the conscious and the subconscious. I'm convinced that ep25 was the first (but not the last ...) explicit attempt to introduce elements of this poetics into Ufo Robot Grendizer.
To understand Naida's personality, it is necessary analyzing her relationship with Duke Fleed. First of all, Naida IS NOT Daisuke/Duke Fleed's cousin (as it is said in FV 1) nor she is part of Fleed's royal family (as stated in IVSD 2). We have this passage from Dialogue 1 between Gandal and Blacky:
Gandal: Naida from Baron family (...)
Gandal says that Naida was part of the Baron family, and the Japanese phraseology here used 3 indicates that Baron family was a noble Fleedian family, but NOT the Royal Family. Hence, Naida was not related to Duke Fleed (as said in FV).
But that's not all: Gandal says other things, always in that dialogue:
Gandal: (...) Naida and Duke Fleed are childhood friends (...)
Daisuke also speaks about having grown up "as a brother and sister" with Naida, confirming Gandal's words. But, even if at first glance these two dialogues seem to imply a simple bond between Duke Fleed and Naida of long-standing friendship, reading them carefully, they do not define at all what their relationship really was in their youth. Therefore, the link between them must be sought in other sources. In order to understand their relationship, we must also rely on images drawn in the anime. And we see a unique and unprecedented scene in the series: a short kiss between the two characters.
Someone can speculate that childhood friends can kiss each other without any sexual implication, and/or where exactly that kiss was placed (on Naida's forehead? On her lips?). But I am of the opinion that - given the average cost of each cell in ep25, whose development team was composed by the best professionals of the time, who certainly did not work for free - would have been foolish for the authors to insert those few frames without a particular purpose. If it was a chaste friendly kiss, it would have been meaningless inserting it: why wasting time and money to create an insignificant scene? The kiss scene is not in contradiction with Gandal's words: Duke Fleed and Naida knew each other since they were children and grew together, but that moment of physical intimacy is there to show the observant spectators (the scene happens in 17/100 of a second) in what Naida and Duke's relationship had been developed in: at least, they were bound by a strong passion.
This detail introduces a fundamental aspect of ep25's analysis: the visual clues. Is it possible to understand Naida's personality not only through her words, but also through in-depth analysis of the scenes she is involved in?
First of all, it may be only a case, but it's strange that Naida, in Dialogue 3, talks about Sirius after a long silence, as if she was thinking about what to say.
In addition, she talks about the death of her brother without a hint of sadness or sorrow: her face and her eyes are cold and chill. She does not show any emotion. And she will not show any emotion even in front of the cell where a "crazy" Daisuke is locked (see the difference with Hikaru).
Also note that Daisuke in Dialogue 3 (but also in many other occasions) smiles at Naida while she does not smile. In that scene, Daisuke puts a hand on Naida's shoulder; she closes her eyes and bows her head, as if she is even more annoyed with Daisuke's action. It is clear that Naida is not pleased with the presence of Daisuke next to her.
Worse: in the scene of Dialogue 3, while Naida narrates her story, Daisuke grabs Naida's shoulders and turns her around. Notice Naida's annoyance for Daisuke's action: she looks like a woman who feels repelled to be touched by someone who she despises. Naida's annoyance here is no longer simulated, in fact, it seems to show real hate.
Do you think I am exaggerating? Go on, then. Again in Dialogue 3, Daisuke speaks with Naida, trying to look at her face, but she voluntarily avoids doing so. Shortly before, her mouth was bent in a grimace of disgust. She then closes her eyes, refusing also visual contact, causing Daisuke to become angrier, so he shakes her.
In response, Naida accuses Daisuke of hurting her, while she had already provoked him before, with her "refusing" behavior. Here she begins to accuse Daisuke and make him feel guilty. Soon after, Naida follows Daisuke with her eyes, with a mixed expression of sadness and disgust. Then she closes her eyes. In this scene she shows some sadness: in addition to hate feelings for Daisuke, she also seems to be distraught.
At the end of Dialogue 3, the background behind Naida becomes indistinct and red. It cannot be a mistake or an accident. This color traditionally indicates hatred, violence, blood, anger, aggression: it is like an anticipation of Naida's future action when she will almost kill Duke Fleed with an iron bar. The hangar scene is somehow anticipated here.
The negativity of the color is also underlined by the look without mercy that Naida takes towards Duke. Also, look at her position: it is on the side, showing the shoulder and elbow, as if to express a barrier between her and Duke. It is a strong sign of non-communicability, total refusal to create a relationship. At the lake scene, Duke Fleed and Naida exchange a few words without ever being in real communication with each other. During the episode, the dialogues between Daisuke and Naida are always elusive, on two parallel levels, until they eventually cross together in the hangar scene and then distancing again at the end of the story, when Naida is about to commit suicide. Indeed, in Dialogue 8, Duke Fleed and Naida don't exchange directly any word during that last scene. She does not even respond to Duke's supplications for stopping her suicidal action.
It could be said, at first glance, that these images and dialogues appear to be not well-coordinated: but, considering the team that created the episode, which includes Katsuta and Nagai in person, it is not possible that this idea is correct. There must be a more complex explanation, which is surprising only to people who think of Ufo Robot Grendizer as an anime for children.
The explanation can be found by changing perspective, and putting the focus of analysis on the complexity of the human soul. In this way, images and dialogues are harmonized, and all scenes get their correct meaning.
In essence, Naida possessively hates and loves Duke Fleed at the same time. Summing up, my basic theory is that Naida hates Duke Fleed for what happened in the past among them: the reasons are related to her relationship with him on Planet Fleed, the arrival of Rubina and the attack of Vega at their planet. We'll understand it better when we deal with Rubina. Naida's hate feelings have been latent in her subconscious for years, while she tried to ignore or suppress them during her imprisonment on Planet Vega. But repressing a feeling never allows to escape from it. King Vega is aware of her feelings, having been able to observe them directly during Naida's life as a hostage on Planet Vega, so he performs a sort of shock treatment to Naida in order to lower her mental defenses and to allow her hate feelings to surface.
The small instrument in Naida's brain had the purpose to allow that tension to remain alive, so to avoid Naida to deal with it rationally.
But, in hangar, she cannot longer suppress her hate. Naida tells the lie of the Fleedian brains to rouse Duke's sense of guilt. He cannot rationalize her words (Daisuke himself is in an altered state) and he falls into a catatonic state.
Please pay attention to the visual details. It is a cause/effect reaction: Daisuke's mind loses every connection with reality when Naida tells him the history of the Fleedian brains. If you own the OV (Original Version), you can hear a very significant dubbing in that scene. It's really scary. And note that, in Dialogue 6, she adds that "she does not love him anymore". Hate has overlooked the passion. Read:
Naida: (looking up) Even if, up to that day, I have always been affectionate to you, I loved you, now it's all over…
"now it's all over…" she tells this to herself, not to Duke. It's not a theory. Remember her different words in her room, when she remembered her torture suffered on Vega? From Dialogue 5:
Naida: Duke, I loved you, I loved you so much I could not forget you for a second only. Nevertheless…ah!!!
In that moment, Naida was still in conflict with her past love feelings (in fact, she is using the remote past: "I loved you" in the sense of "I loved you in the past and I perhaps still love you now") and her current hatred. Even after Naida's massacre on Daisuke, the hate/love conflict returns to her. Her words, from Dialogue 8, when she runs off the Research Center and goes to the spacecraft before committing suicide, seem to me to be quite significant from this point of view:
Naida: Forgive me, Duke, for having let you suffer! I loved you really!
Naida (to herself): (...) You were our only endless hope.
"I loved you", "you were": all these are verbs in the past, as in Dialogue 5. Naida, essentially, returned to the stage BEFORE hangar massacre.
I'm not even surprised that Naida does not remember anything, the morning after Daisuke's massacre; in fact, this is a typical process of mental removal. After letting explode her "unconscious part" for a moment, the "conscious part" takes over and everything seems normal again. Removing the Veghian "stimulant" device allows perfectly this process.
Note the visual details of the scene in the infirmary. Dr. Umon does not understand the exact function of the device, as he ignores Naida's psychological background. But she seems indeed to understand what happened, even if she does not remember it: she is surprised to have struck Duke Fleed, but she does not deny this possibility, she does not think it is impossible.
She is not bewildered by her actions, nor repented, not even in the scene where she is with Hikaru in front of a "crazy" Daisuke. She never sheds a tear, she does not excuse herself. In front of Hikaru's words which anticipate Dr. Umon's decision to try on Daisuke a very dangerous procedure such as an electroshock, Naida shows no concern for him. Daisuke might die or be permanently disabled, and the problem does not seem to concern her at all. It is, from a psychological point of view, a seriously anaffective personality, drawn in the anime with an extraordinary precision.
It is now possible to understand better Dialogue 8, Naida's silent speech aboard the spaceship before her suicide, which seems to show her dark personality, quite separate from reality.
Naida (to herself): I'm sorry Duke. You were the only one able to take revenge of our humiliation and our anger for the downfall Planet Fleed. You were our only endles hope. Forgive me for having taken an action which could annihilate it. (Naida activates one of the protonic bombs which are onboard of her saucer). If you could succeed in escaping with the opportunity I am going to create, run away! And one day, the Vega Empire... 4 (the sentence remains interrupted) If it is for this, if it is for this, for me it's not a pity to lose my life. Now I'm arriving, Vega Allied Forces!
In this odd monologue, Naida suggests Duke to run away from Earth ("run away!"), without realizing that Daisuke had been there and he had never run away because he wanted to protect the Earth. And, in fact, Naida here shows that she is detached from reality and she has never understood Duke's personality: she had thought that his purpose was like her own, i. e. the pure and simple revenge against Vega, not the salvation of the Earth, which,on the contrary, is Daisuke's main objective. If Naida wants to kill the Veghians and revenge herself (just read her words: "You were the only one able to take revenge of our humiliation and our anger for the downfall Planet Fleed." , Daisuke wants to protect Earth. These are two opposite way of thinking. Besides, from a strictly psychological point of view, ignoring completely the most authentic part of someone's personality prevents anybody from loving someone else in the deepest meaning.
But there is still one thing to look at about Naida's personality. We previously demonstrated Naida's lies about Fleedian brains. This proves that Veghians could not control her: she still had her will, she was not conditioned by King Vega in the hangar scene. Then, why Naida lies? Given the above, there is no other explanation: because of hatred towards Duke Fleed. A very strong hate, which led her to hurt Duke Fleed on what she knew to be the dearest things to him (his planet, his inhabitants and his responsibility as a Prince).
And, looking at the visual aspects of the hangar scene, especially about how Naida is drawn when she tells to Duke Fleed the story of Fleedian brains, I can get a further confirmation that she REALLY HATES, and DEFINITELY, Duke Fleed. Her hair, her eyes, her expression...she looks gratified by her own words, she seems almost to foretaste the effect of her speech on Duke Fleed. Observe the images from Dialogue 6:
Naida: (...) Besides, you are going also to cancel the only possibility of surviving which has been given us in desperation! That monster-saucer 5 you destroyed full of confidence some days ago was a Fleed inhabitant, do you know this? The brains of Planet Fleed inhabitants are used for the monster-saucers, you know? 6 They are brains whose conscience has been annihilated and has been inseminated with fidelity to Planet Vega inhabitants!
Maybe it's the scariest image I have ever seen in an anime. Her hatred for that man is so strong that hurts, you can feel it like getting on you from the screen, it's terrible.
Shingo Araki has drawn a masterpiece in the anime history. Anyone who owns the cells of that scene is lucky.
And the next scene is a further confirmation. Once she has told the story of the Fleedian brains, the voice of King Vega is heard as if it comes from the receiving apparatus installed in Naida's brain. From Dialogue 6:
King Vega: Go, Naida! Transform yourself in the flame of hate, and take Duke Fleed's life!
When Naida "feels" inside her King Vega reminding her that she should kill Duke Fleed...it is her subconscious, in reality, who claims to ultimately win her inner drama between "love" and hate. So, she also changes her physical appearance and she becomes a demon. Of course, this is a symbolic image: the authors wanted to emphasize that her soul was completely overwhelmed by the feeling of hatred for Duke Fleed. Her weak rationality was completely overwhelmed.
Her consequent action (taking a bar and striking Daisuke with violence) is, in my opinion, the definitive expression and the conclusion of an internal psychological state of repressed feelings that come to the surface.
One might wonder why, in the case of Naida, there was no Kaori scenario as in ep16. Since Naida continuously professes throughout all ep25 her love for Duke Fleed, she should be in the same situation like Kaori, so she could not hurt physically the object of her love. But, with a careful examination, one must admit that the situation in ep25 is completely different from ep16. From a strictly psychological point of view, Naida's love is not real love. Naida has a possessive attitude toward Daisuke. Throughout the episode, she does nothing more than repeating herself in a maniacal way, "I love Duke Fleed".
It is the symptom of a serious possessive syndrome: it has nothing to do with real love, as a positive and relational feeling with the partner. I don't think that this mental attitude is the result of the imprisonment: it is the degeneration of a previous attitude. If so, we can assume that Naida has never really loved Duke Fleed, not even on Fleed.
In any case, Naida hates Duke Fleed for an autonomous action of her spirit, without conditioning. She really believes that he had abandoned Fleed inhabitants in Vega's hands and judges him responsible for the deaths that, in any way and for whatever cause, followed his departure, with the phrase "My brother has been killed by a traitor."
But this is a too weak reason to justify the kind of hatred and violence Naida shows in ep25: it cannot be enough. There must also be some other motivation to support her hatred, and something very personal. WHY Naida hates Duke Fleed? What is the TRUE reason for her hatred? I believe that this motivation is not understandable only in ep25: you can understand the true background only at the end of ep72. Naida never forgave him for having consented to the marriage with Rubina and for being not only put aside, but also abandoned to her destiny (it does not matter to her that Duke Fleed believed she was really dead).
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1 FV: French Version
2 IV SD: Italian Version Storic Dubbing (1978)
3 the Japanese phraseology here used: transcription romaji: “Furiidosei de horyonishita Baronke no Naida ga notteita hazudaga dousita?”
4 "the Vega Empire...": “Kyousei” in the original. It is referred to as the object of the sentence, not as a subject. But Naida will never complete that sentence.
5 "monster-saucer": “Enbanju” in the original.
6 "The brains of Planet Fleed inhabitants are used for the monster-saucers, you know?": “Enbanju niha Fleed seijinno nouga tsukawarete irunoyo!” in the original.
Edited by joe 7 - 5/3/2020, 15:14. -
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DUKE FLEED'S ALTERED STATE
So far, this analysis has focused only on Naida: to complete it, however, it is necessary also dealing with Daisuke in ep25, because, to fully understand Naida's behavior, we must, in parallel, understand what happens in Duke Fleed's mind in this episode. The problem of image connections with the dialogues in ep25 is valid also for him, so that it is necessary analyzing it very well.
What normally happens to ep25's spectator is that he is so focused on Naida that he does not notice what happens in Daisuke. Yet, even just by paying attention to the images, it can be seen in ep25 that, right from the scene of the encounter with Naida until the end of the electric shock, Daisuke is clearly DRAWN with absolutely unusual visual and body expressions. It cannot be a mistake, because ep25's team is the absolute best of the anime. But even Duke Fleed's dialogues in OV (Original Japanese Version), at many points, seem absolutely meaningless. Summing up the content of the scenes with the dialogues, we can see that, in ep25, Daisuke is in a state of deep depression, so much to not be able even to understand the reality in which he is located.
But, when I speak of "depression" or "depressive crisis" to define Daisuke's mental conditions in ep25, I don't use this term casually. It is not a synonym of "bad mood" or "sadness" or "guilt": I refer to a specific disease that has particular characteristics, and that are perfectly described and DESIGNED in ep25.
Why do we say this? Let's carefully observe details. First of all, Daisuke blindly believes in Naida when she tells him about tortured Fleedians on Fleed.
Besides, Daisuke does not ask questions, not even the most obvious: I mean, about the impossibility of enslaving someone on a completely contaminated planet like Fleed. Indeed, notice how, in Dialogue 3, Daisuke quietly tells this:"Staying here, you could maybe forget the nightmare-like happenings you lived on Planet Fleed, Naida". Happenings which, as mentioned before, were not possible.
OK, Naida could have had terrible situations, but she must have suffered them somewhere else, not on a completely contaminated planet. Daisuke is disconnected from reality and, I would say, also from logic.
But this is not an isolated episode, which could perhaps be explained with the emotion of having Naida in front of him, healthy and safe, after so many years. If Daisuke had been in normal psychological condition, it would have been very strange that he did not remember the name of Naida's brother.
Hey, we are speaking about his girlfriend's brother! Even this particular is an alarm bell, confirmed immediately afterwards, when, continuing to talk about Sirius, the scene becomes more and more weird. When Naida tells him about Sirius's death, Daisuke's answer shows stupidity, or absurdity, more than surprise:
Naida: Sirius is dead.
Daisuke: Dead? Why?
How can Daisuke be surprised about Sirius's death, asking even "why"? Wouldn't have been more normal saying, for example, "I know, I'm sorry" or something similar? Maybe he had not resigned himself to the idea? At the very least, it's strange how he behaves. It seems a thousand miles away from him the thought that Sirius had the same fate of massacred Fleedians.
It could be argued that Daisuke could imagine that Sirius had survived, like Naida. Actually, it seems a rather weak possibility...however, it does not fit well with the visual details of the scene and with Kei Tomiyama's intonation in the original Daisuke dubbing. Not to mention, it would have been more consistent with this hypothesis if Daisuke asked: "How did it happen? I thought he was saved with you", rather than an absurd " Why?". Like the italian song "Maramao why are you dead?", this question makes no sense.
But let's move on in the analysis of the dialogue between Naida and Daisuke: in fact, it gets worse. The following Daisuke's sentence, after the revelation of Naida about a "traitor" is inconclusive, it does not make sense:
Daisuke: A traitor? Who? Who is it? Somebody from planet Vega? (Naida doesn't say a word) So then from Planet Fleed? Is there such a mean person on Planet Fleed? (overcome by his anger, Daisuke holds violently Naida by her shoulder)
What's the point of a inhabitant of planet Vega being a traitor of planet Fleed? Normally, the traitor of Planet Fleed - following the definition of "traitor" - should be a Fleedian, right? Why a Veghian should be a Fleedian traitor? Or maybe Daisuke was right to suspect that the Fleed traitor was someone from Vega planet...and that he had - directly or indirectly - caused Sirius's death. But remains the fact that Naida does not answer his question, as if she had made that remark specifically to trigger a reaction in Daisuke's mind and then measure the power of her statements in him.
Besides, Daisuke speaks of "traitor" and "planet Fleed" as if they were in the present, while he should refer them to the past. Daisuke cannot reason correctly. In addition, after this "explosion", Daisuke no longer asks to Naida about the traitor's name, while shortly before he wanted to know it at all costs.
He behaves in an altered way. Then, he clenches his teeth and his fist: a violent behavior that is not characteristic of his person.
Here it is difficult to see the peaceful and self-governing Daisuke of the series.
Look at him physically as well: Daisuke is sweating in the scene. It is a clinically known physical symptom of a depressive state.
Let's move on to the next scene after the dialogue with Naida: Daisuke plays the guitar on Research Center's balcony. It is the only time, along with ep18, where he does this: usually, he plays at ranch.
His thoughts are disconnected: first, he defines Sirius as "damn Sirius", as if the boy was responsible for his own fate, which is absurd. Then he asks himself : "why did you die?": a meaningless phrase. Here, Daisuke seems repeating in an obsessive way the thought on - for him - inexplicable Sirius' death, which had begun in the previous scene with Naida. Obsessive thinking is another characteristic of depressive states.
Analyzing these early ep25 scenes, it seems therefore evident that, since Naida's appearance, Duke Fleed is showing the symptoms of a severe depression, which leads him to be disconnected from reality. So we can now better understand what happens in the subsequent scenes of ep25 that concern him.
What is surprising, in the hangar scene, is that Daisuke makes absolutely no mention of the contradictions in the history of the Fleedian brains that a sensible person would have immediately raised, accepting without adequate objections Naida's "revelations". Of course, he was accused and therefore he was shaken, but until the point of making no observations?
At least about the fact that a child like Sirius could not be able to to command a combat monster?
Passiveness in front of guilt is, clinically, another symptom of severe depression.
Previously, we spoke about the hypothesis that the lie about Fleedian brains on monsters was suggested to Naida by King Vega during telepathic conditioning. Here I would like to resume the topic to analyze an important aspect, reinforcing the already suggested thesis about the fact that the story about Fleedian brains was carried out only by Naida. King Vega, in fact, could not know anything about the conditions of depressive crisis of Daisuke: only Naida, who had spent a lot of time with him, could have realized it and then suppose the probable effects that her speech would have on him.
It could be argued that it is normal for Daisuke to have collapsed in front of those accusations: someone who has lost his home, his family and all that is dear to him would logically be in a state of psychological frailty.
Duke Fleed is one of the very few survivors of a genocide and this is something that a person never forgets. In a sense, Daisuke's past will always remain his weak point, which is something that Veghians will try to use against him several times (his mother and father, Morus, Rubina). It could be.
But Daisuke here is not the usual Daisuke: because of the depressive crisis, he is disconnected from reality and therefore cannot rationalize such simple thoughts that I too - poor terrestrial girl - could have answered to Naida's absurd speech. King Vega could never have supposed that Daisuke was ill with this severe form of "depression" in episode 25. Even Gandal did not know it. The only person who could realize it was Naida.
In fact, King Vega or Gandal knew it would have been very dangerous inventing such a stupid lie as that of Fleedian brains implanted in monsters. The Duke Fleed they knew from episode 1 to 24 would have laughed a lot, listening to this absurd story. Think for example at episode 32: he remains calm and controlled, even in front of his "mother" and he does not believe the lie of the resurrection thanks to Veghian technology (a more intelligent lie than Naida's).
OK, he will tell Hikaru in ep70 that it had been difficult for him facing the events of episode 32, but in any case he succeeded.
Instead, in ep25, because of his altered state (and only for that) he is not even able to realize the stupidity of the fact of the implantation of mischievous child Sirius brain in Giru-Giru. Moreover, it was very dangerous for King Vega inventing the lie of the Fleedian brains for another reason: what would have happened if Naida had told this lie and Daisuke had not believed her (as a man in a normal state of mind would have done)? Well, I suppose that, in this case, the whole masquerade would have been discovered, Naida could not have killed Daisuke and King Vega's plans would have failed. In fact, without knowing anything about Daisuke's altered state, the risk of failure because of the lie was too high. And in fact, King Vega in the OV (Original Version) does not say a single word about it. Do you really think that the clever King Vega (who is anything but a foolish character in the whole anime) would have invented such a silly lie? With the risk for him that Duke Fleed discovered their plan?
King Vega could not know that Daisuke was in fact in a state of mental depression since the end of ep24, in which Whiter appears: that is, the murderer of Duke Fleed's parents!
My idea is that Daisuke's strong depression begins when in ep24 he recognizes his parents' killer in the Veghian commander and remembers the details of their death in front of his eyes (see the visual details of the flashback of the parents' murder: they are different from those normal flashbacks and they are never repeated again later). So he is already in a bad state of mind since the beginning of ep25, the next one: meeting Naida only precipitates his already critical mental condition. But King Vega could not know that Duke Fleed had recognized the murderer of his parents in ep24, because there was no one there, except Hikaru. Besides, Whiter dies without contacting Skarmoon Base. Indeed, before ep25, we can see his stress and melancholy increase progressively, but Veghians were not in a position to understand it anyway. King Vega could certainly have reasonably assumed that Duke Fleed was stressed after 6 months of war, and, indeed, it is significant that at this moment of the anime he decides to apply the Naida strategy. But that kind of depressive crisis is something different, from a clinical-psychological point of view. They are actually feelings of guilt that explode at the highest rate and they are uncontrollable. This psychological state is called, according to medical psychology, depression.
King Vega could not possibly know this, because, before the finale of ep24, Duke Fleed had never had the chance to personally meet a Veghian commander (Mineo was from Rubi planet) and, especially, the man who killed his parents and probably captured him as a prisoner.
If you carefully observe the combination of visual details and dialogues in ep25, including pauses and intonations in OV (Original Version), you can see how Naida "studies" Daisuke (for example in the scene in the living room of the Research Center) and she adapt her attitude and her words to the situation.
So there is only one option: as in the investigative stories, there is someone who would have the motive, the opportunity and the weapon. Naida is the only person who could understand that Duke Fleed lives a depressive crisis, because she knows him very well and she realizes the situation when they meet. Daisuke, throughout all history, since he meets Naida, behaves as if he lives in another world.
He is disturbed because he believed that Naida was dead, he thought he had lost his great love on Fleed, so the explosion of a guilt complex starts ... a guilt complex that unleashes when Naida, in the hangar, tells the prince that he left their planet, believing a little too soon that his people were exterminated, while Naida was still alive.
Naida: It wasn't wiped out. You see I am alive!
"Manic-depressive state" is the most appropriate term for Daisuke, because the emotional peaks he has in the episode are extreme: from a situation of euphoria, easily he passes to a state of despair.
Let's read, to better clarify, the definition of "depression" in the sense of illness, as Wikipedia says: we will find important analogies with Daisuke's behavior. "Depression" is a condition characterized by depressed mood states, accompanied by low self-esteem and loss of interest or pleasure in normally pleasant activities.
Severe cases are characterized by symptoms that are lasting for two weeks, more or less, causing significant worsening of social functioning, working or other major important activities. The main symptoms are: depressed mood for most of the day, almost every day; marked decrease in interest or pleasure for all, or almost all, activities for most of the day, almost every day; agitation or psychomotor retardation almost every day; feelings of self-revaluation or excessive or inappropriate feelings of guilt almost every day;
decreased ability to think or concentrate, or difficulty in making decisions, almost every day, memory difficulties (in the case of melancholic people in particular) (Daisuke did not remember Sirius' name); recurrent thoughts of death, recurring suicidal ideation without elaborating specific plans, or attempting suicide or drawing up a specific plan to commit suicide. Among other symptoms, dysphoria also appears, which is an alteration of mood with depressive features marked by agitation and irritability. (see Daisuke's irritated behavior with Naida in Dialogue 3).
There may be episodes of delirium or, less frequently, hallucinations, usually unpleasant (scene of Daisuke's "visions" in the cell);
There is also a social withdrawal (Daisuke, for almost all the time of the episode, is with Naida only, acting as if they were still on Fleed).
For the treatment of depression, already in the sixties, in drug-resistant cases or the impossibility of administering antidepressants, a rather controversial treatment model is represented by electroconvulsive therapy (ECT) or electroshock, a procedure by which impulses of electric energy are sent through the brain by means of two electrodes to induce a convulsive crisis, while the patient is in a short period of general anesthesia (more or less corresponds to the electric shock suffered by Daisuke).
In the precise description that the Authors make in ep25 of Daisuke's depressive state, there is a further detail to be underlined. When he collapses psychologically under Naida's accusations, he is in a state of depression known as catatonic. "Catatonic" refers to a mental state that is closed to external stimulation: while the person is apparently awake, he does not respond to situations such as pain or similar things. That is, he is conscious, but he does not respond: he is even in muscular catalepsis (his body remains in any position they put it).
The patient also has excessive motor activities without reason. He is incapable of speaking or expressing himself. He is in inappropriate postures. He also has echolalia (repeats words) and hallucinations. That is, exactly the state of Daisuke's collapse.
This near-perfect description of the manic-depressive state in which Daisuke is in ep25 cannot in any case be an error or a "style exercise" of the Authors. These are hundreds of cells and dozens of dialogues: that is, a substantial amount of money spent by Dynamic Planning and Toei, which are not charitable companies. They must have been included for a very serious reason from the narrative point of view. They are here to tell us something, I have no doubt about this. But what exactly?
I don't think there is a comprehensive explanation in ep25. Many fans have been trying desperately for years to find self-consistent explanations in this episode, but I think it's a mistake. The answer is not to be found within this episode. It's elsewhere ... 47 episodes later.
Edited by joe 7 - 10/3/2020, 12:05. -
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RUBINA
The analysis on Rubina will include three sections: the first section will be dedicated to dialogues of some fundamental scenes in OV (Original Japanese Version); the second section will be dedicated to the analysis of scenes set in the past of Duke and Rubina, or which in that past can be traced; the third section will cover the events that occurred in the present of Duke and Rubina in the series.
ORIGINAL DIALOGUES OF EPISODE 72
Also with regard to Rubina character, in order to correctly understand her episode and therefore the characters who are present, it is necessary to carefully follow the dialogues, at least the most important ones, in version OV (Original Japanese Video).
DIALOGUE 1: ZURIL AND KING VEGA
(Skarmoon Base. Zuril rushes in the control room of the Skarmoon Base and falls in front of the screen, where King Vega has appeared.)
Zuril: His Mayesty! King Vega the Great! It's an emergency!
King Vega: What's up, Zuril-chokan 1?
Zuril: An insurrection has broken out on Planet Rubi!
King Vega:What, an insurrection? My daughter Rubina is on planet Rubi. She would certainly repress it. There's nothing to be worried about.
Zuril: As a matter of fact...I have been told that Princess Rubina has already left Planet Rubi and she is just coming here.
King Vega: What?
FIRST COMMENTS
Rubi is really the same planet cited in ep9. In ep9, Gandal explicitly promised to Commander Mineo that her planet would not have been attacked if she fulfilled her mission to destroy Grendizer. So likely Planet Rubi was in ep9 was only a member of Vega Allied Forces and not a direct government of Planet Vega. After Mineo failed the mission, probably Vega invaded Planet Rubi in revenge after her death, but he did not destroyed it. According to King Vega, Rubina was on Planet Rubi for some purpose (she could have been there as its governor, or simply as a representative of Vega Empire). So we should suppose that she owns all the rights of a princess, and is legally entitled to represent officially her planet and even her father towards third parties.
__________________
1 “chokan”: minister
Edited by joe 7 - 12/3/2020, 14:05. -
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DIALOGUE 2: ZURIL AND KING VEGA
Skarmoon base. Zuril has reached King Vega in the Throne Room: they are alone there.
King Vega: Dammit, Rubina has got to know that Duke Fleed is still alive!
Zuril: But this was not something you could have kept hidden forever, sooner or later it would have been discovered.
King Vega: If only got discovered it, would have been even better, but Rubina still loves Duke Fleed.
Zuril: Even if not less than 8 years have passed since then?
King Vega: Yes, exactly. Even if the purpose was to distract the King of Fleed, it has been a mistake to leave Rubina on Planet Fleed.
Zuril: The King of Fleed seemed to intend to wed Princess Rubina to Duke Fleed in order to maintain peace between the two planets.
King Vega: Yes, it's exactly like that, Zuril-Chokan.
Zuril: Yes.
King Vega: For what Rubina is concerned, I leave everything to you on the matter.
Zuril: (perplex) And this does mean...?
King Vega: If you want, I can rend Rubina at your disposal 1.
Zuril: (surprised, then with an excited expression on his face) To me?
King Vega: Yes. So I count on you.
Zuril: Yes!
FIRST COMMENTS
Referring to King Vega's description of the events leading to Duke Fleed & Rubina's engagement, what is said in this section seems a coherent reference to the fact that - like told by Umon in ep2 - at the moment of Fleed attack, Vega was only at the beginning of its expansionism and likely Planet Fleed was its very first target, due to its advanced science and technology. This idea is reinforced by the fact that later here Zuril refers to "the two planets" and he does not mention the "Vega Allied Forces" (which is the classical definition used in the anime to define Vega Empire, instead).
Besides, it's enough clear that Zuril is very well informed about the background story of the engagement between Duke Fleed and Rubina, even if he was not part of the military elite. We then should suppose he was then already appointed as the Science Minister. We have an indirect confirmation about it from the fact that Duke Fleed knows him personally (ep67), so they should have met when he lived on his native planet (just like for Gandal and Blacky). As a Science Minister, Zuril had always a primary deep interest in get possession of the Fleedian technology (ref. ep2) and if Grendizer was already built at least as a prototype stage at the time of the attack to Planet Fleed (ref. ep2), Zuril would have had all the interest to get it and its technology. Consequently, we could suppose from this section that Zuril could have been the real mind behind all the engagement plan, and his involvement in the background story of the attack to Planet Fleed is probably the reason why King Vega relies on him so much during all the events of ep72.
Rubina becomes a suborned person to Zuril, losing all her powers as Princess of Vega.
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1 "If you want, I can rend Rubina at your disposal": in the original japanese version: “Nozomuto araba, Rubina wo omae ni tsukawashitemo yoi”
Edited by joe 7 - 17/3/2020, 12:26. -
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DIALOGUE 3: RUBINA AND KING VEGA
(Throne Room at Skarmoon Base. Rubina is seriously observing a map of Japan on a screen. King Vega is sitting on his throne.)
Rubina: (fixing the map while giving her back to her father) So this means that Duke Fleed is somewhere in this archipelago, isn't he?
King Vega: But if you are so, what do you think to do with Planet Rubi?
Rubina:(she answers keeping her back to King Vega) All the people on Planet Rubi desire peace. If we allow them the independence, they would not dare to attack us. (she turns and goes close to King Vega) I believe that the same is applicable to the people on Earth. Don't attack Earth anymore!
King Vega: (disappointed) But what are you saying? We have anything but hope of conquering Earth as we have lost Planet Vega.
Rubina: No, we have also Planet Fleed.
King Vega: (surprised) Planet Fleed?
Rubina: Planet Fleed is re-birthing itself. Let's go to Planet Fleed, and start creating a new homeland. For what Duke Fleed is concerned, I will see him directly and I will talk with him.
King Vega: No!! We cannot have peace unless we defeat Grendizer and conquer Earth.
Rubina: Father!
King Vega: No!
(Rubina assumes a serious and disappointed expression, then rushes away from the Throne Room.)
King Vega: Uhmmm... Rubina! Where are you going, Rubina?
Edited by joe 7 - 19/3/2020, 14:14. -
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DIALOGUE 4: RUBINA AND DUKE FLEED ON FLEED
(Planet Fleed, 8 years before. Duke Fleed and Rubina are sealing on a little boat on a lake with big red flowers growing on its shore.)
Rubina: Duke, do you know why my father has sent me to Planet Fleed?
Duke Fleed: King Vega The Great? Boh!
Rubina: He said it was to make me your bride.
Duke Fleed: (astonished) But this is impossible!!!
Rubina: (astonished) This is impossible?! So you don't love me, do you, Duke?
Duke Fleed: (embarrassed) I didn't mean that, Rubina.
Rubina: So, what do you think about me?
Duke Fleed: (even more embarrassed) W...well... (he leaves the sentence suspended and turns right. Only after some seconds, while the boat is shown sailing in the distance, he answers) You are beautiful like that flower.
Edited by joe 7 - 24/3/2020, 13:41. -
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DIALOGUE 5 - RUBINA AND DUKE FLEED ON EARTH
(Planet Earth, present time, at the flowered grass. A nanohana flower has fallen in Duke Fleed's right hand, and he fixes it.)
Duke Fleed: I remember it, in fact...
(Rubina makes a step towards him)
Rubina: Duke!
(Still fixing the flower in his hand, Duke Fleed answers her icily)
Duke Fleed: But that old Duke Fleed has already died.
Rubina: Eh?
Duke Fleed: (still without looking Rubina): Duke Fleed who is here now is an enemy for you.
Rubina: No, Duke, I don't think so, that you are an enemy.
Duke Fleed: (finally watching Rubina) But my father and my mother have been killed by Planet Vega Allied Forces.
(Rubina lowers her eyes and turns away)
Rubina: When you tell me so, I don't know what to say anymore. I can't do anything but ask for forgiveness.
(Duke Fleed's voìce gets angry)
Duke Fleed: Not only that, but Planet Fleed was polluted by Vegatron radioactivity too, and was turned into a planet of death!
Rubina: (turning to Duke Fleed) No, Duke, luckily Planet Fleed is not completely destroyed.
Duke Fleed: (astonished): What?
Rubina: (showing to Duke Fleed the picture she took from her spacer) I've seen it arriving from Planet Rubi. This is its picture.
(Duke Fleed watches the picture in total surprise and emotìon)
Duke Fleed: The suspicious aura of Vegatron radioactivity which covered Planet Fleed does not exist anymore!
Rubina: Vegatron radioactivity is becoming weaker, and Planet Fleed is going to regenerate itself.
Duke Fleed: (turning his eyesight to the sky in the opposite direction respect to Rubina's posìtion) Planet Fleed is going to regenerate itself?
(Rubina gets closer to Duke Fleed, who, anyway, does not move his eyesight from the sky, looking in the opposite direction respect to Rubina)
Rubina: Duke, let's not make war anymore, and let's go back together to Planet Fleed. No? (Duke Fleed does not answer a word, and continues to look at the sky). If we continue again the war, not only Vega Allied Forces, but the whole Earth would be destroyed by the fight. In order to let my father stop the war, there's nothing else to do for us than to take our hands together.
Duke Fleed: (still without moving his face) But...
Rubina: Please! For the peace on Earth, let's go back together to Planet Fleed. You agree, don't you?
(Rubina gets even closer to Duke Fleed, who finally turns to her and they hug)
Duke Fleed: Rubina!
Rubina: Duke!
(While she puts her face on his chest, he looks at her just a moment, then turns his eyesight again to the sky and a tear falls down his right eye)
FIRST COMMENTS
From this moment on, Duke Fleed talks to Rubina using only the formal phrasing, as he has recognised her as the princess of Vega. Previously, while they first meet at the flowered grass, he had talk to her using the informal phrasing, and this is interesting as it's an unusual attitude between adults, according to japanese social rules. My Japanese translator considers that a possible explanation can be that, in the beginning Duke Fleed considered himself as "superior" to Rubina, as he did not believe to be in front of the Princess of Vega. Now, in this scene, he has instead changed his mind recognising to be in front to his "equal" in the society. Rubina, from her side, talks in formal mode to Duke Fleed during the whole episode, as she always knows the identity of the man she is talking to.
According to my Japanese translator, considering the Japanese social rules and the literal meaning of the sentence, Rubina does not propose to Duke Fleed a wedding, but an "alliance" instead between her and him personally.
The literal words of Rubina seem to imply that Planet Fleed is self-healing. This idea was also expressed in the Roman Album, where an official statement by Toei explains that the Planet Fleed possesses an internal energy that has allowed it to defeat Vegatron radiation so much that it can come back to life quickly. Duke Fleed is however completely surprised that Planet Fleed is regenerating, so this capacity of his native planet was unknown to him: and this explains why on no occasion before he has never mentioned the possibility of being able to return one day on Fleed. This ability was also unknown to Rubina, who had surprised herself at the beginning of the episode, and also to King Vega, who likewise was surprised at the news. It is therefore possible that this feature was really unknown to everyone. But the fact should not surprise us: if indeed, as can be deduced from various episodes in the anime, Fleed was the first planet to experience a vegatron bomb, no one could have ever previously studied the phenomenon of the self-regeneration of a planet.
Edited by joe 7 - 26/3/2020, 13:57. -
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DIALOGUE 6 - DAISUKE AND KOJI
(Umon's residence. Koji and Daisuke's bedroom, during the night. Koji is sleeping, while a soft rumour wakes him up. He turns and sees Daisuke dressing up. Koji sits on the bed)
Koji: Eh? So you are leaving?
Daisuke: (without looking at him): Yes.
Koji: The Chief of the Centre should have told you to not go, shouldn't he?
Daisuke: (always without turning and with a serious expression) I want to believe in Rubina.
Koji: What happened between you two?
Daisuke: (turning his back to Koji and keeping the serious expression) If the war with Planet Vega did not break out, now me and Rubina would be... (he leaves the sentence suspended and closes his eyes)
Koji: Ah, did you have that relationship? I've understood. Let's do as I did not get to know anything on the matter as I was sick in bed (he lays again on his bed turning his face away from Daisuke)
Daisuke: (turning to Koji for the first time in the scene): Thanks.
Koji: Be careful, it could be a trap.
Daisuke: Yes.
(Daisuke exits the bedroom. After a moment, Koji sits again on his bed)
Koji: Tsk! But how can I stay quietly in bed in such a moment!
FIRST COMMENTS
In original japanese version, Daisuke does not finish the sentence because Koji interrupts him. Daisuke does not confirm or deny Koji's comment on his relationship with Rubina, so this dialogue cannot be taken as confirmation of anything.
Edited by joe 7 - 31/3/2020, 14:14. -
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DIALOGUE 7 – RUBINA'S DEATH
(The light of the dawn is slowly rising up. Double Spacer, Drill Spacer and Marine Spacer land not far from Grendizer. Duke Fleedr brings an injured Rubina out from Queen Panther and carries her to lay on the flowered grass. Hikaru, Maria-Grace and Koji exit their spacers and Maria-Grace would like to join her brother, but Koji holds her)
Maria-Grace: Rubina! Release me, Koji!
Koji: Maria-chan...
(Koji and Maria-Grace are close each other near from Duke Fleed, while Hikaru is few steps behind them)
(Rubina awakens and looks at Duke Fleed, whose face she can see for the first time, as now he has taken away the helmet. He is kneeled by her legs)
Rubina: Duke...(she takes his hands) The base of Vega Allied Force is on the other side of the Moon.
Duke Fleed: (a bit surprised) Why are you telling me such a thing?
Rubina: Because I would like at least you to believe me...
Duke Fleed: I have come because I believe you, Rubina, you know.
Rubina: Yes.
Duke Fleed: Hold on, Rubina!
Rubina: I would like to ask you one thing.
Duke Fleed: What?
Rubina: When the green returns on Planet Fleed, could you name the first red flower which will bloom as "Rubina"?
Duke Fleed: A red flower?
Rubina: Yes, it will be me. (she sees two birds flying in the sky) Everytime spring comes, I will bloom and I will come back to you.
(Hikaru is watching the scene; she is now in front of Rubina, but back respect of Duke Fleed, whose voice starts to become emotional)
Duke Fleed: No, you shouldn't die! (Hikaru turns and holds herself to Marine Spacer with a painful expression) Let's go back together to Planet Fleedl Let's go back there together!
Rubina: (starting to grimace for pain) Duke, I won't die. I will become a red flower, and I will stay beside you forever...!
Duke Fleed: Rubina!
(Just in that moment, an injured Zuril appears behind Duke Fleed, at the opposite side of Marine Spacer, so Hikaru cannot see him. Zuril holds a gun on his hands, and he is ready to shoot Duke Fleed. Koji and Maria-Grace have moved close to Drill Spacer, at Duke Fleed's right. Koji is watching Maria-Grace, who has closed her eyes so she cannot notice the Science Minister, but suddenly he turns his head just in time to spot the scene. Koji extracts his gun and fires in Zuril's direction)
Koji: Duke Fleed, pay attention!
(Zuril is hit by Koji, and falls on his back dying, just in the moment Rubina closes her eyes for good)
FIRST COMMENTS
Rubina, when she showed the photo in Dialogue 5, had spoken of Planet Fleed who was coming back to life. But, in these last words of her: "When the green returns on Planet Fleed, could you name the first red flower which will bloom as "Rubina"?" It seems that the regeneration process was only at a first stage at the moment. Then, we can discuss the timeline of the final scene of episode 74 and the return of the Princes of Fleed to their native planet.
Edited by joe 7 - 2/4/2020, 13:38. -
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THE PAST: BOAT TRIP
According to dialogue 4, at the time of the boat trip on Fleed, Duke was clearly unaware of the organization of his engagement with Rubina: therefore, his father had not yet informed him about negotiations. This is really strange, considering that Rubina had been on Planet Fleed for, at least, several days, because she already knows Duke Fleed and he had invited her on a boat trip.
Please note that Rubina, however, is aware of the purpose about her journey on Planet Fleed: it seems that the two fathers (King Vega and the king of Fleed) had a different level of trust on their respective children.
However, Key Tomiyama's intonation (Tomiyama is the voice actor of Daisuke in the original japanese version) cannot leave doubts about the total surprise of Duke Fleed about the news of the engagement/marriage. Duke Fleed's answer to Rubina is interesting, because he declares that this marriage is not possible for some reason.
Rubina: He said it was to make me your bride.
Duke Fleed: (astonished) But this is impossible!!!
What kind of obstacle could Duke Fleed speak about? He was Planet Fleed's legitimate heir, Fleed was one of the most important realms in the known universe, then it was perfectly logical for him to expect sooner or later to be involved in a political or organized marriage. So it's really incredible that he considers this marriage to be "impossible" with the legitimate heir of the Vega Empire. It is however a fact that Duke Fleed's reaction to the news that Rubina gave him is instinctive: he replies without thinking for a moment. Consequently, his words, in a certain way, concern his thought, what he really believes. Why does Duke Fleed think he "cannot" marry Rubina? It is very likely that, at that moment, he was already (secretly or not) engaged to Naida, so his first instinctive reaction to the news of the arranged marriage is to say that it was not possible for him to marry Rubina.
She then asks him:
Rubina: (astonished) This is impossible?! So you don't love me, do you, Duke?
The word "love" does not correctly express the meaning of Rubina's question about Duke Fleed's feelings. The Japanese word used here means "to feel affection". Rubina seems to suppose that Duke Fleed feels something for her. So, considering the general situation described in the scene, we could hypothesize that someone (probably the King of Fleed) had spoken to the Princess about Prince Duke's supposed interest in her, without the young Fleedian being aware of this strategic move. Not only by his words, but also through the tone of voice used by Kei Tomiyama, we can see that Duke is embarrassed:
Duke Fleed:(embarrassed) I didn't mean that, Rubina.
Rubina: So, what do you think about me?
Duke Fleed: (even more embarrassed) W...well... (he leaves the sentence suspended and turns right. Only after some seconds, while the boat is shown sailing in the distance, he answers) You are beautiful like that flower.
Key Tomiyama's intonation cannot leave any doubt about Duke Fleed's total embarrassment, while he is facing this unexpected situation with Rubina. Duke Fleed is completely shocked by the revelation of the marriage plan. Even Rubina is shocked by his reaction. Then, Duke is completely embarrassed by the situation he has created. He has immediately understood, from Rubina's reaction to his comment on "impossible marriage", what was happening behind the scenes and he tries to re-adjust his position with her in some way.
However, given his readiness to understand the situation, Duke Fleed had evidently thought it was possible that his family could have engaged him by force without his knowledge. Duke Fleed, in fact, after the first instinctive moment of surprise, does not show any further wonder in front of the news. This may explain the strange attitude of Duke Fleed in ep70. Finally, according to Tomiyama's interpretation in this scene, there is no doubt that, speaking of Rubina's beauty, Duke Fleed is only trying to remedy about his previous words of rejection. Anyone who owns the Japanese version can verify it.
Edited by joe 7 - 14/4/2020, 14:34. -
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THE PAST: THE INVASION OF FLEED
It is interesting to note that, in Dialogue 5, Duke Fleed talks about his parents's death to Rubina, who connects her role as Vega Princess on the event: but she is not calling out of responsibility for what happened. She asks forgiveness for herself, not for her father. Let's read again:
Duke Fleed: (finally watching Rubina) But my father and my mother have been killed by Planet Vega Allied Forces.
(Rubina lowers her eyes and turns away)
Rubina: When you tell me so, I don't know what to say anymore. I can't do anything but ask for forgiveness.
Rubina answers to Duke Fleed assuming her own responsibility in Fleed attack. On the other hand, Duke Fleed reprimands the fact directly to her: he does not refer to the treachery of her father King Vega regarding the alliance between Fleed and Vega. From Rubina's answers, it seems that Rubina herself played a role in Fleed attack; besides, Duke Fleed himself considers Rubina as responsible for those events, at least partially.
In fact, when Duke accuses the Vega Allied Forces of Fleed massacre, Rubina asks for forgiveness, but she does not consider herself as unrelated to that context.
In my opinion, Duke Fleed thinks he has no reason to believe Rubina. I think he knew something about what had happened behind the scenes of the attack on Planet Fleed, something that accused Rubina. In fact, at their meeting on Earth he speaks with anger (the OV - Original Japanese Version - leaves no doubt) to Rubina about the invasion of his home planet ... and she does not reject his words, she asks forgiveness for herself. It is curious that Rubina asks Duke to forgive her and not her father for the destruction of Fleed, as if she had played an important role in this fact. And what would she have done? In my opinion, we need to put together several pieces of the puzzle in OV (Original Version) to find the answer.
Edited by joe 7 - 6/12/2019, 19:46. -
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THE PAST: DUKE'S ESCAPE
If Rubina was really involved in Fleed invasion, probably she approved her father's attack, provided that Duke Fleed was not killed, not even after helping Vega to empower Grendizer (ep2).
Otherwise, the princess's speech to her father at the beginning of ep72 would make no sense. In fact, while she was in flight with Queen Panther, Rubina says in OV (Original Japanese Version) to her father:
Rubina: You, Father, have mislead me!
King Vega: What? I have mislead you?!
Rubina: I’ve heard from somebody on Planet Rubi that Duke Fleed is still alive!
In this dialogue, Rubina shows that she was unaware that Duke Fleed was alive and that she was deceived about this: it is difficult to hypothesize a logical explanation of this dialogue other than the fact that it was reported to her that Duke Fleed had died, differently from what she had requested. Perhaps King Vega had made the decision to lie to his daughter about the Prince's fate after he had escaped with Grendizer, telling her that he was dead in the final blast that destroyed the planet.
However, if Rubina had really loved Duke Fleed, she would have hated her father for killing him: instead, she had gone to rule the occupation of a conquered planet on his behalf. Evidently, the true relationship between the characters is different from what appears at first sight.
Edited by joe 7 - 21/4/2020, 13:39. -
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RUBINA ON RUBI PLANET AND DUKE ON EARTH
A critical point for the correct interpretation of ep72 is to be able to understand Rubina's real personality. This episode clearly states that Rubina was on Rubi planet. Besides, there is no doubt that it is precisely Mineo's planet (ep9).
Rubi had actually been subdued without being destroyed by Vega in ep9, after the failure of Mineo's mission: Gandal had kept his promise. It must have been a very delicate political situation, yet King Vega decides to send his daughter to rule the planet. But why does he choose her? He himself explains this to Zuril at the beginning of ep72. In fact, he shows the maximum trust in Rubina; in fact, he is totally sure that she would have crushed the revolt.
King Vega can be a lot of things, but certainly he is not stupid. He sent Rubina to rule Rubi planet and he considers her capable of stopping a revolt in the blood: he must have very good reasons to think so. In fact, the dialogue (Original Version) of ep72 between father and daughter does not deny anything about this interpretation. Rubina does not support planet Rubi's cause: she makes only considerations of political convenience for Vega reign about the granting of independence. Evidently, his father knows her very well.
However, Duke Fleed knows well Rubina, too. In case Rubina had never been involved in planet Fleed's destruction, in case Rubina had been in good faith, in case Rubina had shared her peace feelings with Duke Fleed, in case Rubina was simply been forced by her father to adhere to a policy she did not share, in case Rubina simply fell in love with Duke Fleed and he was sure of her love and he reciprocated her feelings... then, why did Daisuke never think of somehow contacting her and asking her help during the war between Earth and Vega?
That way, Duke Fleed would have had a powerful ally in the highest rank of Vega Empire. We see Daisuke fight and suffer for 71 episodes because of the war and the fact that he is the only one that can drive Grendizer and so trying to defend planet Earth in order to avoid it to undergo a similar terrific experience as Fleed, while instead he could have simply and happily asked for his beloved King Vega’s daughter’s aid to overcome all problems??!! Pardon??? What an incredible plot hole would be this? And it would have lasted from the beginning, so in my opinion the whole anime story would result this way as totally fake (well, it could even be – we are talking about a cartoon after all – but personally I think it’s unlikely. We have discussed and agreed so many times about Grendizer internal coherency, so honestly discovering an invalidating point at the end it’s something that I would evaluate as an extreme ratio and only if no other explanation would be possible).
For more: Duke was a fugitive for 4 years before arriving on Earth: why he did not marry Rubina in the meantime if he loved her so much? Lack of time, lack of information about her location? Come on, she was the heir to Vega’s throne, i. e. the future queen of the largest empire of the universe; later she gets also an official role as Planet Ruby’s governor. If Duke wanted to marry her, for sure he would have found the way to track her down. By the way, it would have been also a good and peaceful way to have a revenge against King Vega who destroyed Fleed.
Again: if Rubina really could have been a good ally, Daisuke at least should have talked about this lucky advantage to someone during these 71 episodes. Still, he does not say anything like this. Not only that: Umon, Maria Grace and Hikaru clearly about know Rubina's existence, but none of them suggests to Daisuke to look for her to ask for help. In any case, he does not believe Rubina to be his possible ally: otherwise, Hikaru and Maria Grace would have behaved differently at the balcony scene in episode 72 (Hikaru is sad and Maria Grace is worried).
From these facts, we should suppose that:
a) Daisuke suffered of amnesia and did not recall of it up to ep72 (yeah, sure).
b) he talked to his friends about it “out of the screen” but nobody cared or thought about the possible consequences (yeah, right again).
c) he was the one who wanted nobody to know about this past engagement because he did not love her and that particular of his past life was one of the memories of his role in planet Fleed he desperately tried to overcome.
The fact that Duke has never talked about Rubina and he has never searched for her or sought her for help...let me believe that the authors had developed a plot that makes sense only if Duke never believed that Rubina would have helped him. The fact that Duke distrusts Rubina proves that he cannot believe her, something he repeates several times in the episode.
But, if this is true, then we must ask ourselves a question: why?
Edited by joe 7 - 23/4/2020, 14:56. -
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RUBINA: KING VEGA'S DAUGHTER
According to Dialogue 1, King Vega was sure that his daughter would follow his own overall political approach. Let's read:
Zuril: An insurrection has broken out on Planet Rubi!
King Vega:What, an insurrection? My daughter Rubina is on planet Rubi. She would certainly repress it. There's nothing to be worried about.
Basically, according to King Vega (and also according to Zuril, who does not contradict him) Rubina would have no problems in suppressing revolts, just like her father would do. After all, Rubina was on Rubi Planet officially on behalf of her father: we have no reason to believe otherwise.
Usually I read on the web that the "sweet princess Rubina" wanted only peace, disagreeing with her father and even having a "strong sense of justice". Where are the evidences which demonstrate that Rubina owned these characteristics? From dialogues? From these VO (Original Version Japanese) dialogues you can clearly see that King Vega trusts Rubina and knows about her adherence to his ruthless politics.
Moreover, Rubina leaves Rubi Planet not because she loves peace, or because she is contrary to her father's political action: in VO there are no traces of this. Rather, she leaves Rubi only because she knows that Duke Fleed is alive.
Perhaps Rubina hid peace thoughts? Well, in VO this does not appear. Rubina says only that she wants the end of the war, so avoiding other revolts and finding a new planet for the Veghians. Let's read the dialogue between Rubina and her father:
Rubina: All the people on Planet Rubi desire peace. If we allow them the independence, they would not dare to attack us.
Rubina's observation shows a pragmatic and realistic attitude, but it does not show a desire for peace: there is no concept of peace as a principle. Not to mention - I repeat - that her father expected that Rubina acted by crushing the revolt, a thing that evidently she had already done in the past. Otherwise, it would not explain the father's trust on Rubina (unless King Vega was a stupid character, but he never appears at all in this way).
Edited by joe 7 - 7/12/2019, 15:56.
NAIDA AND RUBINA: AN ANALYSIS BY GERDHA |
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